- What subspace feels like? [00:01:07]
- Are there levels of subspace? [00:06:40]
- The two components of subspace [00:11:10]
- What activities put you into subspace? [00:13:32]
- Subspace and consent [00:16:30]
Click play below to listen to the episode.
Chief: Hello, it’s Chief and Moineau here again, and we’re going to be talking about what subspace feels like.
What does subspace feel like?
[00:01:07] You’re obviously the sub you’re the one that goes into subspace and feels it. And so I think you’re far more qualified than me to talk about what it feels like. So, yeah. Would you just describe what subspace is, how it feels for you.
Moineau: Yeah. It’s tricky, first of all, because in subspace your mind is so relaxed, that words are not so much a thing. So trying to actually describe the feeling is really difficult. So bear with me. For me, it feels like molten feathers. It feelslike at the same time, quite a like melty grounding sensation. Like my body is, is melting pleasantly into the, into the floor and like sinking. And yet my head awareness, mind awareness is like floating above my head. At the same time. So it’s quite, it’s quite a quasi out of body experience.
Chief: So body heavy mind light.
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Moineau: Yes. Yeah. That’s a good way. A body heavy, although almost floating.
Chief: It’s an out of body experience, but you can still feel your main body. Yeah. Well, it makes sense. I’ve heard other people describe it as that as well. What about some of the other effects? I know you find it difficult to speak and move.
Moineau: Definitely difficult to speak if I’m in subspace. I almost can’t speak. I like, it’s quite difficult, even if I needed to speak for some reason. And there have been times before that I’ve been in subspace and maybe I’ve been feeling cold in that moment, or, you know, not quite comfortable or I need some reassurance from you.
And I haven’t been able to voice that. Just because like, in subspace, you can’t. For me, and I know for lots of other subs, when I’ve, when I’ve talked to some online and things, um, the ability to speak does essentially go away. If I really needed to, or like, if I’m in low-level subspace I can say just a few things, you know, like sometimes I’ll, I’ll let you know, because if you’re trying to get me to do anything else, like, it would be nice for you to know as a dumb and be like, Hey, like don’t expect much from me because I’m in subspace space right now, but I can’t actually say that.
I’d love to be able to write with my finger, just to like spell it out, like subspace with my index finger. And I can’t even do that. Like every action that is unnecessary, the ability goes away. So any extraneous, movements of limbs, speaking is out the window also, just in terms of thoughts, um, very much just in the, in the present moment, you know, there aren’t any higher thoughts really, you know, it’s, it’s really focused on the, on the here and now.
Chief: Yeah. Let’s talk about that. You mentioned there that you can’t really say anything or let me know you’re in subspace, but as a Dominant, I’m obviously monitoring you and able in some, sometimes I can see when you’re in subspace, but sometimes it’s not all that obvious, you know, it’s obvious if you’ve got your eyes closed and you’re staying very still, or we’re doing something that I know puts you into subspace like, spanking , or rope, but other times during sex, you may have your eyes open and your mind just isn’t there. And I don’t always know that you’re in subspace so I can see why it would be good to have a signal that wasn’t verbal.
Moineau: It would be good, but I don’t think it’s very easy to do because even squeezing your hand or something that takes effort. And there have been times that if we’re having sex and I am in a subspace. I think for me, I mean, I think I’m pretty quiet generally, but I know that I’m much quieter, even in like low level subspace because there is a range in subspace there’s depth.
I can be really deep in a subspace or I can just be like riding just under the surface in which case I know I’m far quieter. So even saying something like, even the things that we’ve agreed on for me to say about like what level I’m at, it becomes quite the effort to, to say those things.
Chief: It’s just like being spaced out. It’s just, you just suddenly get quiet or spaced out and again, you know, everyone is different, so I’m not saying it’s for everyone, but the common, those are the common things that I’ve noticed. And as a Dom, sometimes it’s unnerving because you’re like, “Oh, hang on”. They were moaning. Are they enjoying this? That they’re just lying there now. Like, is this pleasurable for them? And then you stop and check in and then they’re like, Oh no, no. I was really enjoying that. And you’re like, okay, great. I have no idea.
Moineau: Yeah. It’s worrisome if you’re not aware of how I’m going to behave or respond or not respond because it’s really a lack of response. I think that’s the most telling thing in subspace. You could ask me to suck you or something and I can perform those actions. It’s almost zombie like. It makes it sound off-putting, but.
Are there levels of subspace?
[00:06:40] Chief: Talk about levels. Sometimes you say it’s a black and white, you, you suddenly notice you’re in subspace, but there’s also levels to it.
Moineau: The suddenly noticing there’s an awareness that I’ve reached subspace or that I’m in it currently, you know, I was already in it before, but there’s sometimes in my mind a switch where I’m like, “Ugh, yeah subspace”. And it’s really as simple as that, but it, um, helps me get deeper into it when I notice that I’m in it.
Chief: It’s a bit like daydreaming, you know, you could be daydreaming and not realize you’re daydreaming and then suddenly your mind goes, “Oh, actually, hang on. I was daydreaming there” and you suddenly realize you’re in it. But unlike daydreaming, where you come out of it, You don’t.
Moineau: Yeah, you can, you can stay in it in that moment. It’s more just like a, it’s like a really self-satisfying feeling, like when you’ve had this itch that has suddenly been relieved and you’re like, ah, yeah, you’re not going to keep on itching, but you can still enjoy that sensation.
But it’s definitely something with depth because most of the time, if, if I’m feeling subby, if I’m in a submissive mindset, it can be quite subtle when I go over into subspace. It can be something that’s pretty much on the surface if we’re doing something sexual and I can just start focusing more on the present.
It is quite a focus on the present. So if I am in the moment, I’d say that I’m in subspace with whatever it is that we’re doing.
Chief: So if we were in a scene and we were just starting out and you were standing like sucking me that wouldn’t, you’d be in a submissive mindset, but it wouldn’t be the same. It’s sort of his subspace, but it’s not the deep, relaxed, not able to do anything subspace that you can progress to.
Moineau: Yeah. If, if, if we were starting a scene and I was sucking you, I’d be thinking that I’m sucking you, that I’m enjoying myself, that you’re enjoying yourself. I’d be thinking about the surroundings.
I can hear the surroundings. I’m aware in some sense of what’s going on around me. The more I do that, especially something with oral that I quite enjoy. There is a moment that those extras, frivolous sensations kind of get the, they dull in my, in my mind. So I’m not going to be so aware of any sounds around me or any extra feelings, like maybe the carpet’s no longer uncomfortable. And I’m just focusing on the sensations that are in my mouth. It’s a much more focused mental space and that’s when I’ve gone into subspace from just feeling submissive. So all those extra details. You know when you wake up and you’ve been having a dream and when you’re just waking up from the night and there’s a moment that you can, all of a sudden hear the bird singing outside when before you can hear them when you’re just on the crest of waking up.
So it’s that. In reverse.
Chief: Is it like going into flow if you’re really engaged in a task , maybe you’re doing a painting or you’re drawing or you’re writing something. And at the beginning, you’re not into it. You’re not fully engaged in it and hear everything around you.
And then 10 minutes later, someone’s calling your name and you don’t even hear it because you’re so in it, you’re just in the flow of cocksucking
Moineau: You laugh, but it’s true. I do yoga, not as much as I should, but when I do get into the flow of yoga, especially sometimes when I’ve done the big marathon, sequences, there is a moment that you’re just like in the, in the repetition, you’re able to just really hone in on your body and nothing else and none of the exterior features around you. So yeah, in that case, it’s much like flow, except the difference is that it’s not just a mind thing. It’s also a body thing because then you’ve got like the almost trippy quality to it.
The two components of subspace
Chief: It’s interesting you say that. And obviously I’ve not experienced subspace cause I’m a Dominant, but I do see it as having those two components. One is you being present in your mind and mindful it’s almost like meditation. So, you know, the feeling you get after yoga, you’re just in the present moment. You’ve shut off every other sound.
I’d almost say that is the first component. The second component is, and again, just my theory, but I think it subspace is taken to the next level by the physiological changes that happen in your body and that sort of interaction of the endocannabinoids, the runner’s high, essentially, which people used to think was endorphins, but is actually potentially the endocannabinoid system and, and the adrenaline and the cortisol.
And that’s why you can feel very submissive, but it’s only really when we involve hard impact play or pain that you tend to, or rough, really rough sex that you tend to go more into that deeper subspace, which you wouldn’t get from something like yoga.
Moineau: When the body has been engaged in a way that is putting up the fight or flight response in some arduous, arduous, isn’t the word, but some, some difficult task. Under pressure. Yeah. With the mental component, that’s when subspace is achieved.
Chief: And you need those two, right? Because I could give you a lot of pain, but if you weren’t in a, you almost need to be in a relaxed state as well, because just pain is not going to put you into subspace. But if you’re in that mental submissive mindset and then you add the pain you get this really nice blend.
Moineau: Without the submissive mindset, just pain is actually going to make me upset. It’s not pleasurable at all, but with the submissive mindset aspect to it, then all of a sudden that pain, which would generally be painful becomes arousing or pleasurable. And it’s something that the body can focus on, you know? So it’s like all of my thoughts go to that sting or go to that heat. And so that I’m able to like fully embody that feeling, which is it’s like being on drugs or something, I would assume, cause it’s all of a sudden, it’s just overwhelming in the fact that I’m just feeling whatever it is that I’m feeling.
What activities put you into subspace?
Chief: Let’s talk a bit more about what particular activities help you go into subspace?
Moineau: I’m trying to differentiate between the activities that put me in a submissive mindset and the ones that put me into subspace because I think there is a slight difference. Because when I’m already in a submissive mindset, because you’ve asked me to do a task or I’ve been put on display in some way, or if I’m kneeling, all those things are right to make me feel quite submissive, especially the kneeling. I quite like the thought of kneeling to induce that submission and to like really let me focus on, on that position of submission. But then going over to subspace there has to be some component that’s difficult or that hurts so spanking or impact play, or rope bondage. Those put me into subspace.
Chief: Rough sex?
Moineau: Rough sex can, or it can be more just thrilling. There’s a, uh, a hair-pulling hair-pulling is a good it’s. It’s a good technique.
Chief: Because it’s painful?
Moineau: I mean, it puts me both in a submissive mindset, but then, because it’s slightly painful, I can focus on that pain. And when I’m focusing on it, then I’m going to fall into subspace probably not just hair-pulling alone.
Chief: It would have to be part of it.
Moineau: Yeah. If it’s part of rough sex. And I’m against the wall or something, and you’ve pulled my hair and like put me on my knees, especially if, if there’s, if there’s the repetition involved, you know, do that three times, let’s say that you’ve done that, that you’ve kind of stood me up and, you know, throw me here, throw me in there and then I’m back on my knees and then do it again. By round three, I’m probably in the subspace. Yeah. So the repetition is also, I think, important for me.
Chief: It’s a process, isn’t it? It’s not one minute you’re in subspace one minute , it’s a slow buildup of the kind of activities that the Dominant is having you do.
Moineau: Really just being in the present moment with all those chemical doing who knows what in my body. Just with the repetition. It helps get me out of my head. And I think that’s one of the most important things to get me into subspace is that I have to get out of my head. If I’m still in my head, I’m not going to be in subspace. Once they get out of my head. Am I just focusing on the task in front of me, that’s when I’ve, I’ve made that jump over from one to the other although, it’s not a jump, you know, it’s, it’s quite, it can be quite gradual.
Subspace and consent
[00:16:30] Chief: You’ve said to me once that when you’re in subspace, I could pretty much get you to do anything, which is kind of a blessing and a curse, right. Because I could take advantage of you. Obviously we’ve consented to that sort of stuff anyway, so it would be fine, but maybe for other Dominants, I think they need to be aware that when the submissive is in subspace it is, consents a weird thing, right?
This is why it’s boring to get consent upfront because they may not be able to say that they aren’t happy with a particular activity or they’re quite vulnerable as well. In that state of mind, it’s quite easy to persuade anyone. You could tell them anything and they would do it right. Cause they see you as in charge and they’re, you are your mind shut off and you’re not thinking straight. It’s almost like being drunk in a way.
Moineau: I was going to say it’s like, it’s like being on drugs in a way. When we had that spanking scene, I had a thought. When I was like, Ooh, you could do anything to me right now. I had that thought and it was quite pleasurable at the moment just because. We have the communication and the trust we’ve discussed our limits. I know that what you could do to your would to do, to be, would fall under the range of what our limits are and what it is that I like.
But it was both very arousing. To to feel that like, I’m like, Oh yeah, now you could really ramp things up and now I can throw me about, or you could, roughly face fuck me or something like that and I would, I would go all for it. At the same time it’s quite thrilling in a terror sort of feeling, you know?
I’m like, Oh shit, you could actually do anything to me right now. And I really would comply.
Chief: We sort of have almost a free user agreement, right? So, you’re happy with me just fucking you when you’re asleep because we’ve agreed all that. And we have that, but if you’re a new Dominant with a new submissive, she will be having those thoughts. She would almost potentially stop herself going into subspace because she doesn’t trust you fully. And it doesn’t matter what you do.
If you do all the things to put her in subspace she’s not going to go there because she’s worried about, being taken advantage of potentially. So, if you’re just starting out don’t worry about necessarily trying to get someone in subspace from your very first go, it requires that trust and communication and consent to be in place.
And the more you have that, the easier it will be in the future.
Moineau: I would say that you could still go into subspace in that moment, even if you don’t trust the Dom, because it’s not within the Dom’s power to put a sub into subspace. You’re doing it, you’re facilitating it, but it’s within my own mind.
So. If there could potentially be like I could go into subspace with, I dunno, just a really dominant individual without really, not wanting to, that’s not the word, but like, I guess I remember the first time that I really realized that I was in subspace. I don’t remember what I was doing or what was going on, but I know that what I considered permissible in subspace wasn’t actually something that I would want when I was out of it.
So afterwards I was like, Oh, Oh goodness. My wants change when I’m in subspace and I’m like, Ooh, I would actually, I would not want that to actually happen. Um, but in space I was all for it. That’s something to be cautious of because you obviously wants to be with someone who you can trust to not push those boundaries of what you would actually be comfortable doing outside of subspace.
It’s like when you’re watching porn and you can start watching weirder things and then coming out of it when you’re not aroused. Yeah.
Chief: After you come you’re like, what did I just watch? .
Moineau: Yeah. And it’s the same way with subspace. I think I can, I can be like, Ooh, that doesn’t sound appealing all of a sudden. That fantasy in my mind of a gangbang of 20. I would not actually enjoy that.
Chief: In the heat of the moment, something can be very arousing that would normally be non arousing or even a turnoff. That’s why people feel ashamed because they’re like, why did I enjoy being spanked? Or why did I enjoy being fucked roughly that I shouldn’t, I shouldn’t either, I shouldn’t enjoy that or go wrong, or I just.
I just can’t believe I enjoyed that thing. So, just be gentle on yourself. Understand that what you enjoy in the moment, may change. And it’s why after a scene should communicate because something which was a hard limit or a soft limit now becomes your favorite thing to do, or not a soft limit anymore.
Moineau: Yeah, but that’s also why it’s also important to have that conversation about your likes and desires beforehand as well, so that in the heat of the moment you’re not going to breach something that you actually find quite abhorrent reality.
Chief: Let’s talk about safe words. Obviously if you’re deep in subspace, you can’t talk, you can’t say the safe word. So I think it is important you have some sort of nonverbal safe word as well.
Moineau: I’ve struggled with that within my own mind, just because I don’t think I could actually do that either. I’ve thought about it on many occasions. Would I actually be able to tell you to stop when I’m in subspace? And I think the answer is almost 100% no. I wouldn’t be able to tell you to stop even in some nonverbal way. If you’ve checked in on me and I give you a squeeze, like a reassuring squeeze, I think that’s probably the most of what I can do.
And when we’ve played with others and you’ve squeezed my hand and I’ve squeezed back, I think that’s pretty much that’s what I can actually do to reassure you that I’m okay. Which is a bit alarming.
Chief: It does bring up a bit of ethical question.
Moineau: Really does within myself. I’ve had to sit with my own thoughts about at what point I can consent and not consent anymore. Because even though I liked the idea of consensual non-consent, and it’s something that I would like to explore , because we trust each other but I have to take a hard look at what your ethics are. Like, am I okay with doing this when I know that I really can’t tell you to stop because in subspace safe words are ineffectual in my case.
Chief: It is alarming as the dominant that I could potentially put you in a position that you are doing something you don’t enjoy, but you can’t say anything or do anything. It’s why aftercare is so important because the submissive may, you may have done something which is slightly beyond what you thought they wanted. And it’s why as a beginner dominant, if you’re either a beginner or you with a new partner, don’t try and do it all at once.
Don’t, don’t go in with hardcore porn, BDSM scenes and try and replicate them. Start small, start by introducing light spanking, slightly rougher sex. Don’t go all out and try and put your sub deep into subspace. Do a sex menu. So you understand what their hard and soft limits are and what activities they’re comfortable with and keep communicating a lot.
Moineau: I consider myself a feminist and I’d say I’m quite a modern woman in terms of my own journey through sexual liberation. And if it’s not something that you feel that you’re comfortable with, knowing that there is that lack of being able to check in in the moment, then maybe it’s maybe you need to discuss with your partner about like, not reaching those levels.
You would almost automatically stop yourself going too deep in subspace if you don’t fully trust your partner. The reason you’re able to go and deep subspace with me is because we’ve learned that the trust to build up the trust and you know, what we’ve agreed to do and haven’t done where someone is within.
You know, let’s say they’re on a one night stand, which again, I probably wouldn’t, I wouldn’t agree to doing BDSM and in a one night stand, but if you did, you’re not going to let yourself go deep into subspace.
Well, that’s the thing, especially in the age of online dating you can already be building up a sort of parasocial relationship with the Dom.
And I’ve had that be the case where I’ve been talking to someone for a couple of weeks before you meet up. And when I met them they were quite like heavily dominant and it made me feel instantly, instantly submissive, just because we’d been doing psychological play for weeks. So, it can definitely happen, but that’s why you have to discuss everything beforehand. And I think that’s, that’s the best thing to do.
Chief: Ask your Dominant if you’re a submissive before you meet up with a new Dominant, or if you’re just about to go into a scene with them, maybe ask them, you know, what’s your, what’s your opinion on subspace?
Like, how do you, how are you going to make sure that I’m a right? Do you know what sort of aftercare you give just to make sure you’re dealing with someone who understands the risks.
Moineau: Or at least the physical changes as well. I have to have chocolate and snacks on hand to be feeling back to normal and is actually something that’s quite important and I’d be worried going into subspace without knowing that those things are already easily accessible for aftercare.
So having the aftercare set up beforehand before a scene, I think is quite reassuring because then I can fully relax doing that afterwards. Things that I need are going to be there and that I’m going to be taken care of. Yeah. Yeah. It’s a wild ride subspace.
Chief: Well, there is, those are our thoughts on subspace. Hope you found them useful. Go out there, play, enjoy it.
Moineau: Play safely and enjoy yourself.
Chief: Yeah. Thanks everyone.