In this week’s episode of Conversations with a Dom Moineau and I are joined by Rosa Maxwell, a sex, love, and relationship coach based in London. We discuss:
- How to connect to your authentic desires
- How to share those desires with partner
- How to overcome feelings of shame about your sexual wants and needs
Listen below, and remember to subscribe.
Audio transcript
[00:00:36] Chief: Hello, and welcome to another episode of conversations with the Dom, with me, chief and Moineau. We’re joined today by Rosa and Rosa is a sex love and relationships coach.
[00:00:59] Rosa: Yeah. I’m so happy to be here. Thank you
[00:01:03] Chief: for having me. Not at all. Yeah. Very excited. So, this podcast is all about demystifying sex and in particular on issues, BDSM and Dom sub a and trying to make it more accessible to people and to not have so much shame around talking it about it and discussing it and.
It gets depicted in some bad ways. So anything we can do to help people discuss their desires and normalize
[00:01:30] Moineau: the conversation.
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[00:01:31] Chief: Exactly. Normalize it. So people can just get out there and have more pleasure. That is what we’re about. And so when I came across your Instagram profile and then followed it to your website and read everything about you, it seems like that is not necessarily the BCM aspect, but certainly helping people own their desires is your bag.
And so that’s why, we thought we, we get a chat with. Yeah,
[00:01:55] Rosa: absolutely. And I think that space creating that space to have these open and honest conversations, and really, as you say, normalize them and demystify them, hopefully take away the shame from them is really, and helping people really embrace who they are sexually is absolutely my jam.
Like one of the names that I’m even playing around with as sex love and relationship coach, but even like sexual liberation coach, that really describes much more. Yeah. She’s going to change it. It really describes more of what it is I do. And I really would say that I’m really on, on a big mission to help people really uncover.
That authentic sexuality and that is going to be different to everyone. And I’m a big believer in sex love and relationships by design. And that the way that we get there is really by embracing ourselves a huge amount of selfish self-acceptance. And also a deep reconnection almost with the body.
Like a lot of this stuff that I do is very sematic, very body-based very embodied the work that I do in really helping us link up that brain, body connection so we can really feel more pleasure and also know what it is that really helps us to feel pleasure and working with those emotions and those experiences that, that we have as well, because so much is based in the body.
Definitely.
[00:03:26] Moineau: Yeah. I definitely feel that, especially, I mean, as a woman, I feel like I, there is that wanting connection between the mind and body, and when things are not quite there, when there’s like a misfiring or like when it doesn’t quite link up, you S you sense that in any, it can really lower the sense of pleasure that you get out of any experience.
[00:03:50] Rosa: So, yeah, a hundred percent. I resonate with that. It feels like that monkey mind, that’s always kind of running away and that way that actually we can sometimes question what it is. We really desire. And we want what it is that we really want authentically because we can intellectualize it. Or we have all these messages that we’ve grown up with.
Maybe from society, maybe from our parents, maybe from previous relationships. And it’s really what I find in my work like untangling all of these different societal narratives, different messages even integrating past experiences of trauma in all different forms and then coming home to the body and what it is that we authentically want and what it is that really brings us pleasure and what it is that we really desire.
[00:04:40] Chief: And so would you say most people come to you knowing. Is it that they’re coming to you with a desire when they’re like, oh, I shouldn’t want that. Or is it that they’re, they come to you because they’re not getting what they want out of sex and they don’t quite know why.
[00:04:55] Rosa: Yeah, absolutely. I’m and it can be varied. Like the people almost with the direct challenges, like I have a lot of it is very like disciple desire based and desire in particular to really embrace that their sexuality and their desires. That’s often the desire that I work with people on, and that can range from someone who maybe feels very disconnected from their body, from themselves, from their desires.
Doesn’t know what they want at all has never focused on their pleasure. Doesn’t know what it is that brings them pleasure or even necessarily like where to start. And that can range from those clients that I see in that space, to those who. Actually do have these desires, but they maybe feel shame around them.
And they want to understand a little deeper where these desires come from and also how to explore them in a way that brings them pleasure and also their partner’s pleasure. So I do a lot of work from that initial stage of really reconnecting people to, to their bodies and to what it is that they desire all the way through to actually let’s embrace let’s really embrace what it is you desire and explore the ways that you can explore more of it in a way that feels pleasurable to use.
So, so there definitely, now that you say it, and I hadn’t quite like clicked, but definitely my work is very much desire focused and embracing that. And I’ve found that when we’re able to. Really accept ourselves and accept our sexual pleasure and really play in that space. And so much of that as well as coming back to desiring ourselves, like how do we treat ourselves as lovers and take ourselves out as love is.
And yeah, now that I think about it, a lot of that sexual liberation journey that I go on with people is very. Focused on embracing and accepting desires. And that when we do that, I see this like much more like free flow of energy when we’re not kind of worrying about our sex lives when we’re not worrying so much about our relationships, when we’re not feeling as much, maybe judgment, self judgment or shame then we have all this energy.
That’s so free to be directed in different spaces, whether it’s our work, our professions, whether it’s our friendships, whether it’s our families and my clients often tell me that on the journeys that we go on together, that the more that they are like kind of embracing their sexuality and their pleasure the more they see these positive changes in the rest of their lives and it never ceases to amaze me how much it’s all like connected and how much energy we can put into.
Like almost like quashing our desires, calling them maybe putting that energy into the, to the shame that we feel or even putting that energy into feeling maybe broken because we don’t know what it is we want, or we don’t feel connected to our libido and sexuality. So yeah, that, that kind of really the people that, that I work with and I see, and I know it’s yeah, part of my own personal journey, embracing my sexuality.
And I’m always honored to support others on this.
[00:08:06] Chief: What’s your take on how gender plays into this? D do you feel there’s a, I know this is always a bit of a hot topic and murky waters, but do you think that, uh, society’s harsher on women? I mean, do you see more women clients? Is there a difference in the genders who come to you and the kind of problems that they.
[00:08:30] Rosa: So currently I do see a difference. So I work with people kind of across the gender spectrum. And I also work with people across who identify as multitudes of different like sexualities, which I really love. It’s very, I consider the work that I do very inclusive. And say, saying that though, even with this.
Within seeing people of different genders. And I can only speak from the clients that I’ve seen and the work that I’ve done. I have seen an ever so slight gender difference. I find that the challenges are often similar in the sense that it’s people kind of maybe feeling shame around desires or feeling disconnected.
But what I have found with my, my female identifying clients, uh, where our journeys normally begin is often that. Even more of it. It’s almost at that very starting level. As I said that actually they don’t know what it is that they desire as well. And they’re not sure whether what they desire is actually what they desire or what they think they should desire because a partner or society tells them that they desire it.
And a big part of the work with a lot of the women that are the people who identify as women who see me often a big part of that journey is also creating and cultivating a sense of safety within themselves. And within that their partnerships to be able to feel, uh, more self-acceptance and more free to explore their desires and to express themselves sexually.
And it’s really, I, it goes from I don’t know, I don’t feel a sexual connection to myself or to others to oh, okay. I don’t know what it is that I desire. I don’t know how to ask for that. How do I feel safe enough to like, kind of ask for that? How do I feel safe enough to let this sexual energy free flow around me?
And then kind of moving into the more okay, well, how do I now? And this is like the favorite part. And often I see this in just like three sessions is it goes from almost like feeling that disconnection to them, be like, okay, now, like how do I go and explore a lot of this, more sexual alive that I’m feeling this connection.
So my body and I do a lot of connection to like self desire and like masturbation practices. I give a lot of homework. How do you connect to your like pussy or your penis and or what other words you might call coil genitals or anything in between. What I found as well, is that, that really cultivating that connection to the self and self pleasure can really help connect to partners and help embrace desire in that way.
And then with, just to answer the question on the converse with people who identify often as men what I’ve found is there’s more of a journey around confidence in communication of desires and embracing and accepting some of their desires and working, uh, around how to maybe begin to explore more of those with a partner or dating in that sense.
And we still work a lot on a key keeping that connection to the body and self pleasure and exploring those elements. But I find that way. So far it’s been more with people identify as men more around the communication and the embracing of the desire and women identifying human beings.
It’s more starting with that connection to what it is that I actually what is it that I actually desire and untangling some of those maybe narratives to, to allow more of that embracing of who everyone is authentically.
[00:12:14] Chief: Yeah, it’s interesting. I mean, obviously I only interact with women, so I only hear the, the female point of view, but I’ve definitely experienced.
I think one of my, one of the roles I like to take on as a dominant is helping people explore their sexuality. Cause I think a lot of people and people in general, both women, cause I mainly interact with women. It happens to guys as well. They don’t like to say they don’t know what they necessarily want and what they like, what.
And they’ve either never thought about it or they’ve. It feels like they don’t want to think about it because they’d been told it’s wrong. And as soon as you give a space where I will be very open about what I like. And I’ll just talk about it like that dinner, or just a normal during the day.
And it’s quite shocking to them. They’re like, wait, you can’t say that like 11:00 AM. Uh, but you do. And then they, that craves the space where they can then open up and then have great sex because you’re trying all these new things or things that they want to do. So again, for me, and for any dominance who are listening, I, my personal style of dominance is almost as a, it’s kind of a mentor, I guess it’s like just, you don’t have to do anything.
You just have to allow the space and just be open yourself. And that will. Do amazing things. But I
[00:13:33] Moineau: would say that is doing something that is, yeah. That is opening up the space. And that act in itself, I think, is something that gets lost a lot of times, without even realizing in any sort of relationship.
Sometimes people don’t realize that they’re not allowing that space, so I do think that is a, that’s something to be aware of just in any sort of, sort of interaction that like it’s, if you have an open space, like that’s judgment free, and then that feels that’s a safe zone that it just allows people to be more vulnerable and like an open with themselves and with everyone that they interact with.
[00:14:14] Chief: Yeah. I think it tends to be that because men are, it’s basically easier for us to orgasm. Right. We don’t need it. It’s much more physical than. Uh, a female orgasm, which requires is quite mental in some ways. And it needs always barriers taken away. So yeah, I think I look a lot of guys don’t think about this and they go on the internet and oh, I need all these techniques and how do I make them?
Hey, how do I make my techniques better? And it’s actually, it’s the listening. It’s the crate ration of space is the best technique. If there’s one tip of it gets on just do that. Like you can learn the most amazing sexual techniques, but then never going to work. If you have not created that, that atmosphere of trust and openness.
[00:15:00] Moineau: Yeah. The women about their emotions. And it’s Ooh, well tell me more, that’s the
[00:15:04] Rosa: key to pleasure, honestly, what you’ve hit it on the nail on the head there. And I was going to say if I was to give a top tip as well, it’d be creating that container safety, someone to be able to share.
That desire is share their fears, share what they’re interested in, what they are maybe insecure about as well. And really when you can create that space of safety. Oh, wow. Like from what I hear from my clients and what I’ve experienced myself is when someone starts asking me about like how a sexual act.
Make me feel. And if I would really like how it is that I want to like, feel in this space or in this engagement, like maybe setting up like a particular scene, whether in say I know in the BDSM space or even in a Central’s way, like whichever creating that. Container as well for safety in that space and asking, well, how do you want to feel in this sexual interaction?
Oh my gosh. It makes me emails, let alone, oh my gosh. And my clients tell me the same, like that. They’re like, oh my God. Creating that. And it’s different for everyone, what they need to feel safe in that container, whether it’s some people really as like some other top tips, they really love like physical touch while they’re talking, because that helps create more oxytocin when we’re touching like particularly skin on skin.
Or whether it’s over like a coffee or a drink or in a neutral space or maybe even setting up a space that is just to
[00:16:34] Moineau: pleasure and that sort of interaction.
[00:16:36] Chief: Yeah. Yeah. And you meant it. It’s funny. Cause you mentioned word safety a lot and as a, again, Alright, my experience as a heterosexual guy who interacts with the women, I doubt very much that many men go into a sexual encounter, heterosexual men, and think I’m not safe here.
It just, the it’s not even, it doesn’t even cross our minds that the person we’re in interacting with has safety on their mind. So, guys out there, even just hearing that you need to be aware of those kinds of things, cause it all plays into how, yeah. Again, it’s not dancing or technique.
It’s down to creating this mental and relaxed and safe space for the partner. And the great thing is if you’re in a DS relationship as the dominant you can do that because. I mean, it should be doing it if you’re not in a DSR as well, but as a DSO, you have even more opportunity to do it because you can create that environment because you’re leading.
And that in itself is a turn on for the submissive. So combine those two things and you called them.
[00:17:37] Rosa: Yeah. Yeah. And I, and that thing around, around safety is just so, so, so paramount. And I do hear that that we’ve like from those who have asked, who have been socialized as women, that it can.
A lot more that I’ve seen where there are these things around safety compared to people who have been socialized as a heterosexual man in, in particular. And knowing that you can create this space to have these conversations. Oh my gosh. I wish everyone would do that all the time. I love a lot of, and everyone’s different.
And I do want to, I do want to make note to those who may have desires of unsafety as well, and actually where you feel tendon is actually when you feel unsafe. And that there are specific fantasies and experiences where you’re like actually, nah, the thing that turns me on is like not feeling.
But inherently often when we play those scenarios out in a consensual way, there is still that like container safety in that that, that pre-conversation, that happens. And I think there’s a lot that a lot that everyone can learn from the BDSM scene and the weld of like kink from just the way that people communicate and the way that often in my experience people have asked, and we ask each other about desires, like what it is that, that turns you on, what is it that you like, what it is that you don’t like, where are your boundaries?
And things like that. And I. Everyone. I think everyone needs to have these conversations and a lot of my clients are interested in kink and BDSM. I’d actually say maybe it’s 50 50 but like a lot aren’t and the things that I teach each are exactly the same around how to communicate your boundaries, how to communicate your desires, how to create these containers of safety for yourself and for your lovers.
And yeah, really when I see that happen, like I just see sexual energy flow so much more freely, and that’s the feedback I get all the time. Yeah.
[00:19:37] Chief: That’s amazing. It’s amazing. I’d really love to hear some of the tips that you give on either, communicating better to your partner or expressing your desires or connecting yourself any.
I mean, I know that was a lot of things to cover, but maybe if we start with the rest work backwards, if you know that you re. Have a desire and someone came to you and they like, oh, I don’t know how to, I didn’t have to tell my partner. I dunno, like, how do I communicate this to them? What would you say to them?
[00:20:08] Rosa: Oh, that’s such a, uh, kind of a delay. I love these journeys and where I would always start is exploring the desire and exploring maybe the fear around sharing the desire and unpicking those. So for anyone who’s a bit nervous about sharing a desire. The first place I would always recommend starting is thinking, okay, why?
What is it about this that makes me nervous? Where does this maybe fear come from? Is it because I’ve been told that this desire is wrong? Is it because I’ve been shamed for this in the past? And really just begin to do a little gentle self exploration. I’ve maybe some of the emotional, like feelings that sit behind this desire and this fair, and just start to understand them a little bit more you’re more yourself.
And then with a particular desire then where I would always recommend, if it is something that they felt they wanted to communicate and explore with their partner, I would always recommend creating a space and setting it up as well, because it can feel really vulnerable to share desire. And also it can be quite vulnerable to hear one as well.
So making sure that both partners are in the right space to communicate about their. So I would always recommend starting, like asking a partner maybe even by WhatsApp or text message, if that feels less threatening based on your partnership. But just saying, Hey, I have this to say. I really I’ve been thinking about it a lot and I have even some fears around sharing it, but I’d love to share it with you.
Are you open to receiving this? You open to sitting down with me and talking about this and that just sets the precedent and that tone of vulnerability for the conversation. And I would hope that in partnership that you felt able to be vulnerable emotionally with each other in that way. And then during that conversation the few things that I always invite people to kind of hold and remember, is that the first is that there’s nothing wrong with you and that you are like, based on your desire, like you are a good person.
Because what can happen is if we share our desires and then not met in the right way, we can shut down, maybe internalize. But often what that means, and these are generalizations that I’m making. But from my experience often when that happens, it’s got nothing to do with your desire or your pleasure, but it’s just the other person’s boundaries.
Or maybe they’ve got their own shame about this desire that they haven’t unraveled. And it also might just be something that they’re not interested in and that’s okay. And that’s not a reflection of our own self-worth for having that desire. So I do a lot of work around worthiness and feelings of self acceptance and acceptance of desires.
Because just because someone else isn’t interested, it doesn’t make it wrong. And then if the conversation goes like awesomely and they’re like, oh my God, I thought you’d never asked I’ve been thinking about this desire to I really love to explore it. Then you get to come into that space and yeah.
Play with that together, but that’s always, it’s like some top tips is really focusing on maybe unpicking some of those narratives that, that maybe are around this desire and feeling okay. Well, w what is it really about this desire that brings me pleasure and how much I would enjoy it to really feel this desire, and then setting up that conversation in that kind of vulnerable space, inviting, almost getting the other person to consent your partner, to consent to the conversation, and then remembering during the conversation that your desires are valid and that if someone doesn’t want it, it’s not a reflection of your self-worth.
And if they do want it awesome off you go, how exciting that you’ve approached this conversation and you get to explore those together. And also one space that I work with people as well. If partners aren’t interested in. Exact design is exploring. Well, what elements of that desire are really important to you?
And how might you be able to explore those together with a partner because it does, or is there, are you in a non-monogamous relationship? Is there a space where you can explore that maybe with a separate partner and working with people on the other feelings and emotions that can come up with those navigations?
[00:24:40] Chief: Yeah, it was good that I was going to ask you, but you’ve answered it already. It’s what do you do if, uh, your partner isn’t interested in that particular thing, but I think you’ve sort of answered it. You either you find what the make compromise and find out what it is exactly about that desire that you like and maybe find a compromise or yeah, some people.
[00:25:00] Rosa: Yeah. And I’d love to ask you both a question a, in a moment as well, because one of the things that I found particularly like when exploring desires, and this was like a huge mindset shift for me when I was taught this in my training. And it’s something that I love to work with all my clients on, but often when we think of desire, as we can naturally go to the different acts and activities that we want to experience, whether it’s saved being tied up or being spanked or something like or anything in between.
Or outside of that, but often where I like to almost shift focus or bring another layer is, well, how do you want to feel as you’re being like tied up or you’re being spanked because actually one person who’s being spanked might want to feel abused and degraded where another might want to feel cherished and loved.
So when we are able to get underneath what the core desired feelings are that sit underneath our like desires, then that’s really where the gold is. Because say a partner wasn’t necessarily interested in spanking, but actually understood that. Well, actually, the spanking is important to you as a desire because it makes you feel like degraded.
Well, Why not, why don’t we explore something else that will help you feel that way or something else that will help you feel cherished I’m in a different space. So you can really start to explore the, if the important thing, and what I found often is that the most important thing is the feeling rather than the physical act or activity.
So you can, there are so many different ways to explore the different feelings that often there’s, there are spaces that you can come together in partnership. And I’d be curious for the two of you. I know. Yeah. In that kind of dominance submissive role, if that resonates, or if you’ve experienced that actually the way that you like to feel in those kinds of roles is different from how others say dominance or submissives, like to like, to feel in those.
[00:26:59] Moineau: Yeah, I, sorry this whole conversation, it makes me so excited. I can feel your passion for the topic and I’m just jabbing with it. Yeah. Uh, when I think about like my desire in my submission, there are so many levels to it and the deeper I go, the more like intense it gets, obviously, I’m like, oh shoot, this is actually like a core soul, like nurturing thing at the very center.
So it feels really precious to that I have to protect like that little inner, that feeling. And then the outside feelings are much easier to like kind of play with and get felt if that makes sense. And I definitely get I think I desire feeling desired, like I want to have that.
I want to have that acknowledgement yeah. On myself, which sounds really like selfish, but but not because I just I want the space to, to have someone desire me and and let myself feel that because then if I go deeper than that, then it’s a whole sense of like self-worth, and like unpicking the the negative, the repressed sexual upbringing that I had.
And also just like normal upbringing, like when you feel a sense of like just kind of getting lost, growing up and maybe that you weren’t heard or yeah. Or seen. So to have that idea of that feeling of being seen for me is really something that. I mean, definitely desired.
So then it then it plays onto my that’s what I desire sexually. So like when I’m getting spanked or something, it’s I want to feel that. Like I’m getting all the focus is on me in that moment.
[00:28:44] Rosa: Yeah. Yeah. And that’s so beautiful because that focus, that being seen, that being desired, that’s the real turn on the I’ve experienced.
And I’m curious if that resonates, like the spanking is the activity, but the real turn on is like feeling desired feeling that, that kind of, that feeling of seeing does that resonate. I’m curious. I realize I just kind of projected that.
[00:29:08] Moineau: It’s definitely not on also though then, because we play like in a Dom sub dynamic, like it’s also the sense of being protected in that space as well.
So it’s there’s so many, it is the safety aspect, I suppose. Yeah.
[00:29:22] Chief: Yeah, for me, it’s the same. It’s the underlying core needs is. To be loved, I guess, and to be needed and seen it’s a similar thing. Right. But it’s, it just manifests it in different ways. As a sub it’s your way of manifesting it is to, uh, to be so desired that you get taken anyway.
Right. Whereas for me it’s to do the taking if someone is willing to let me do anything to them, it must mean that they really liked me. Yeah. So they’re both the same underlying need, I think just being expressed in different ways. Yeah. And then, yeah. So even something like I think as well as a more nurturing side, so I don’t I don’t get like necessarily turned on by spanking for example, but I do it because I.
The other, I know it like knowing that I’m turning on the other person. So again, that comes back to her desire to be needed and wanted.
[00:30:16] Moineau: Yeah. But now that I’m thinking about it I love getting spanked, like it, if I think about it, it’s not that I find the act of spanking browsing, it’s that I’m being held in that space.
And my, like my spirit is being acknowledged by the dominant, so it is, it goes back to that core of just I think everyone, everyone in the world wants to feel like loved and understood, in any sort of situation or like relationship you want to feel understood and seen as a person.
I feel like I, I think that goes back down to Person. Yeah. And I know that’s like blanket statement, but I think we didn’t get to the core of it that desire. So it’s just interesting how that gets expressed in different ways, but also how that gets repressed in different ways. And it’s interesting to hear, like for you as a dominant, how it’s you desire someone letting you take that, that like
[00:31:12] Rosa: initial
[00:31:13] Chief: it’s really like me because if someone didn’t trust me, they wouldn’t let me do that to them.
So that means they trust me, which means they liked me. So, and even something I could degradation, let’s take, uh, it’s not that I’m into degrading the person. It’s the, that is a way if, again, if they’re willing to let me do that thing to them, then they must love, they must really like, yeah.
So, yeah.
[00:31:34] Moineau: Okay. So I have a question then from all this, so how would you, Rosa address with the client or if someone comes to you with this sense that they have these desires, but then they feel shame about them. Like I’m thinking specifically as a submissive, because it’s, I think it is like a really vulnerable space to recognize that you’re desiring submission when we live in this modern world that we do that is hopefully progressive and towards empowerment.
So like when my submission manifests in this idea of being, taken or objectified, like how do you reconcile those two sides, of the desire and where it comes from, and then like how it kind of, like it doesn’t link up quite with the, with what we learn as a, as an adult.
[00:32:32] Rosa: Oh yeah. This is such a big one. And I have, I come across this quite, quite a lot. And particularly it’s also, it’s like also a journey that I’ve been on myself being like a feminist and like really feeling it, but also having some more submissive desires and enjoying allowing someone to kind of take the lead to take control to to kind of be guided and kind of put my trust in someone else like that.
And and I see this with my clients as well, and you’re right. It’s such a, it’s it’s such a, it can be like, uh, it can be really confusing. And it can. What I’ve seen, like limit sometimes like sexual energy, because there’s almost like this push pull. It’s I want it, but I’m not sure I should want it because it potentially goes across.
And almost like my values as uh, someone who identifies as a woman in this society. And what’s, I have found in the, and what I’ve, what I worked through as well is really examining again those those subconscious structures, those societal narratives, like where we’ve maybe picked those up where they stay in the body.
Because one of the things that I found is that we can intellectualize a lot of this and we can be like, oh, okay. But I, but actually it’s almost, I do a lot of work with like our shadow selves. And so one of the things that I find is so. And I’ll use this example. So like imagining somebody identifies as a woman, like we grow up and we have these desires and they’re like our authentic desires.
And then because of the way we’re treated by society, we kind of be like, oh Nope, can’t be sexual. As like a woman it’s shameful to like, want these things. Let’s kind of put those away. So we build a shadow self, like on top, but on top of our real self and this shadow self we’re like, okay, Nope, not going to be sexual.
That’s fine. I don’t have a sexuality, but that’s not true. That’s not true. That’s not what centric. And as we go through our life, we’re like, oh, but actually my partner wants me to be really sexually liberated and and free and all of this. So we’re like, oh gosh, now I have to build on this second shadow self that say.
Oh, uh, no, I am sexual, but actually it’s still, almost not really getting down into the truth of what it is that is really at the authenticity of those desires. So then we almost potentially become performative, right?
Yeah. Yeah. So one of a big part of the work in particularly what I’ve found around this dynamic is untangling these different shadow selves. So really getting back to what it is like at that authentic level that you really desire and untangling these societal narratives that we’ve experienced.
And what I find with these shadow selves and with these narratives is that. They almost get lodged in the body so we can intellectualize it as much as possible, but unless like our body feels that it’s okay to have these desires, we’ll kind of continue to block, uh, our sexual energy and kind of continue to like block, uh, our pleasure.
So what I found is that when we, and I do, I work a lot with like breath work and meditation and embodied practices. So really working with the kind of body mind, as well as the intellectual minds. And when we can go deep into that and get into what is truth by almost peeling these layers back, what we can do is a bit of like subconscious reprogramming to come back to being like, okay, well, I can exist as a feminist and I can have these desires and both are true to me.
And that feels true deeply into the body as well as in, in the minds. And when we’re able to kind of link that. There’s no more shame because you’re like, oh, I can have both. And I can play in both because I know that both are true. I know that I can have both and both can be true. But what I found is it does need some of that reprogramming some of that, that unpicking and for anyone listening, who potentially resonates, where I often start is really exploring where did I pick these narratives up?
Was it within my teenage years? Where was it that maybe I was taught that my sexuality wasn’t okay. Where I was ashamed for it, whether it’s in different ways and whether it’s also feeling shamed for feeling submissive, whereas it, in society that I see these messages, is it in TV? Is it in the books that I read?
Is it in the magazines? And then. With that awareness, what I find comes that the opportunity for choicefulness. And so then we can be aware of, okay, I know where these come from and I know why they’re here, but I can also choose it still brings me so much pleasure. And it’s something that I authentically want for me, not because I’m pleasing my partner by doing it, not because I’m repressing my sexuality and think and think that this is the way to be sexual, but because it’s authentically what I want.
And yeah. And then there’s one other thing that I want to say or say around that as well, that I’ve exploded and experienced is there’s a lot of research which is done by a guy called Jack Morin. He does a lot around like the erotic minds. And one of the things that he talks about is like repetition with agency.
So often maybe when we’ve had. Our sexuality be squashed when we’re younger. And like maybe it does put us more in that submissive space that actually by embracing that feeling and feeling empowered with it can do a lot of healing work for maybe some of the trauma or some of the negative conditioning that we have experienced through repressing those part of our sexuality.
But when we can embrace, say that submissiveness with full empowerment and pleasure then that, that repetition with agency with that kind of consent with that self consent and partner consent, that’s when it can become so empowering and so healing, because we can take it back and be like, fuck.
Yeah. I love to be submissive. I love to have my, put this trust in my partner to be controlled. Okay. I’m still a fucking feminist too, like getting the narrative. Yeah, definitely. And I’m curious if that resonates in your experience and the journey that you’ve been on in particular.
[00:39:12] Moineau: Oh yeah, I think so. I think the more, I mean, I’ve definitely had moments where I’ve had to grapple with these big questions, like how, especially a lot of my academic reading is about, feminism and the importance and the collective importance of being, this like modern and modern is not the right word, but like of holding womanhood in this, progressive society.
So so. There have been some times where I’m like, is it irresponsible of me to play into these like kinks that I have, or like these desires that I have to take on a more historically traditional submissive role? And how does that, how can I is it almost like a, it’s a service to other woman because is it like repeating that like narrative that traditional like misogynistic sort of conditioning that we get through society?
So I’ve had to really like, think about that within myself and just learn that, I feel my empowerment of sexuality because I’ve I’ve taken it back, like I do find my desire rooted. In my submission, but it’s on my own terms, I’ve so, but I feel like it’s not like a one time and it done sort of situation.
Like I’m constantly having to like kind of re nurture myself that like, this is okay. And it’s good to feel this way, because there’s an acknowledgement then in my body and my mind, that this is a good thing, yeah,
[00:40:53] Chief: I have the, and I have the opposite end of the scale because your two complexes, submission and feminism, and mine is like patriarchy and being dominated.
It’s well, if I’m being dominant, is that not just being what everyone hates and being toxic toss, the classic toxic man. Right. So, yeah. There’s definitely things I found growing up. I had to, cause I think there’s two types of societal shame that I see and some are good and some are bad.
So for example I went to quite a religious school and they. The, they taught us masturbation was wrong or they didn’t teach us, but it, that was what some of the more Christian people would say, and it would claim it set in the Bible. And so I grew up until about the age of 15 being like, this feels so good, but like why am I going to hell for this?
And then, it’s just this can’t be right, right. This religion caught me. Right. If they don’t allow this. So that’s obviously a false narrative or false belief that God instilled in me. And I think that there’s a lot of those women shouldn’t enjoy sex. We shouldn’t, everyone shouldn’t enjoy sex.
You shouldn’t have too much sex probably about. But then I swung the other way. And now it’s more of a, there are some, there are things that people have asked me to do to them. And I want to do to them that are not, you shouldn’t be doing for good reason. Right. Because for example, slapping someone in the face that is not something it’s good, that society has taught us not to go around and slap people in the face because that’s not gonna, that’s not gonna see anyone.
But if the if you’re two consenting people and one person is asking for that and I’ve had that in the past, they’re like, be ready, aggressive with me. And I’m like, well, I’ve been taught to be really nice and kind to everyone. I can’t treat you that way. There’s something in my head blocking it.
And that’s like a good thing. That’s good to have those boundaries, if you would like straight in there and not really caring about the other person, then you probably got a problem in normal life. So, yeah, that’s what I mean. I was sort of swung the other way now I have to overcome the normal things that, that The normal rules of society, which are there for good reason.
So, uh, yeah that’s kinda my struggle. It’s yeah. Why would I, even though part of me is yeah, there’s a massive turn on, of course. But but there’s still that thing in your mind being like, I was taught to be really kind and caring. Like I can’t do this to this person. Yeah.
[00:43:04] Rosa: I always think that’s re and I always think this is such an interesting thing around desires and particularly within the BDSM space, because it almost feels it almost feels like for so many of us, and it’s just so normal that these things that we’re taught in these narratives that they’re.
That combines so, so that if I say slap someone in the face to bring someone pleasure in the bedroom, this makes me a bad person, because I wouldn’t just go around slapping people in the face, like on, on the street, quite rightly so that’s assault. But within the way that I love to teach around pleasure and desire is that the two aren’t like mutually.
Exclusive. So the things that you might do day to day and the way that you might act day to day, isn’t going to be the same way necessarily that you interact with someone sexually. And I think knowing that you can still fulfill someone’s desires and still be that kind hearted, beautiful, like nice person that those you both exist at once.
And the same with being like a feminist and being submissive both exist at once. And I really believe in following pleasure and making sure if it’s like within your boundaries and that if it’s all consensual and really getting into what it is that you desire then follow what brings you pleasure and like really play with that.
Because when we are free within our sexuality, we are so much freer in the rest of our lives.
[00:44:38] Moineau: I think it gets tricky for some people, cause yeah, It’s almost easier to be like, okay, I’m going to, ask to get spanked in the bedroom. That’s if the act is, uh, exclusive to a bedroom sexual space, it’s easier to kind of to reconcile that
[00:45:01] Chief: because
[00:45:01] Moineau: that’s all right.
Yes. But I think what gets really tricky is those really nuanced things outside, especially I think in Dom sub dynamics, like having a desire to be, led about in the every day sort of thing and and perpetuating that quite traditional conservative sort of power structure that’s in place in society.
That’s where I think it ends up being quite tricky and you have to have nuance. Conversations with yourself and with your partner as well about making it,
[00:45:35] Chief: we’re talking about like traditional, the man goes out to work, the woman stays, does the housework cleaning and looking after
[00:45:42] Moineau: the dominant being the one who’s leading the,
[00:45:47] Chief: I make deciding what we have for dinner and
[00:45:51] Moineau: yeah.
Cause obviously that’s not like some sex act that we can just be like, okay, that’s just a healthy sexual desire that goes into,
[00:45:59] Rosa: That’s
[00:46:00] Chief: it’s tricky.
[00:46:02] Rosa: Well, my, my question would be is that what brings you pleasure authentically? Is that the sex life, the love life, the relationship that you want by design.
Yeah. And like, why not? If that’s what brings you like the most pleasure, if that’s what makes you feel fulfilled?
[00:46:21] Moineau: Yeah, I like that the by design, but it’s really, I think
[00:46:24] Rosa: that’s important. Yeah. Yeah. Cause
[00:46:26] Chief: You’re the, your differences. You’ve got the choice, right? You are aware we are choosing to do that.
We’re not being forced into it. And I think
[00:46:32] Moineau: there’s also an awareness to just knowing that that you’re subverting that narrative, by choosing it.
[00:46:39] Chief: It’s funny as well, because I, when I’m dating, I’ve had BDSM is such a broad term and myself included until about five years ago.
I didn’t really know what it meant. And when I heard the term BDSM, it was in my head, it was pain, it was leather and it was whips. It was a really uncaring person doing stuff to another person for their own sadistic pleasure. And. And when you, so when I’m going on dates or meeting some of the first time, and I’m like, Ooh and I bring up the fact that I’m like, are you into BDSM?
They then immediately think I’m going to be like that. And I’m going to inflict pain onto them. And they’re like, oh no, that’s not what I want. And I’m like, well, do you actually know what my form of BDSM is? And I think that’s one of the reasons I started my website because there are so many different forms of it.
And it, it doesn’t mean that you want to inflict pain on someone the whole time. It’s not 50 shades of gray necessarily. I mean, that’s fine for some people, but being a dominant company, And being a submissive can mean so many different things. So I guess the moral of the story is if you, if your partner does come to you with a desire, make sure you really understand what it is before you say yes or no.
Yeah. Like you said, at the beginning where it’s coming from, because it may not, you may have misinterpreted it or not. No. Cause I say I’m into DSS and then I, and then they’re like, oh, does this mean you’re going to does this mean not have any autonomy? Are you going to make all the decisions for me?
I’m like, hell no. That’s way too much effort. Yeah. It’s just in like I’ve put myself out there. Let’s discuss. Does that in any way turn you on and they’ll be like, oh yeah, well in bed it does. I’m like fine. You know that’s it, that’s how the dynamic is going to be. But yeah, there’s always some element I think.
I dunno, maybe I’m just super open so I can pretty much get into any king granny, if someone else is into it, I like, I cut it like it. So
[00:48:30] Rosa: a hundred percent, I have my favorite question for that. And I asked this whenever anyone shares it, a desire with me, and I actually asked this for a lot of things.
And I’ll share a few more contexts where I use this question, but my favorite question to ask anyone when, and it really, and for anyone listening, if you want to create that, like open non-judgemental space to really sit with someone while they’re sharing their desires or is what does that mean to you?
So simple. So say someone shares that as I like, oh, I really want you to dominate me like, oh, I would love to understand more about what that means to you. And so that way, as you say that you can clear up any potential miscommunications, because so often we all grow up with different narratives.
We all grow up with different projections that we put on other people that we’re also unique as individuals. So w one way I might interpret something will be completely different. So like the next person, and I always ask this question when, and if anyone tells me their gender identity so if someone identifies as like a man or a woman or non binary or trans or anything, Uh, what does that mean to you?
Can you tell me a bit more, I’d love to get to know and understand you even deeper. Or if anyone tells me that sexuality, like I’m BI I’m queer, I’m straight. What does that mean to you? And I find that it’s such a beautiful question. So open up the conversation. And so often whenever I ask it to prospective partners, they’re like, oh, I don’t know if I’ve ever been asked that what does that mean to me?
And it gets into more of those conversations. And then I always ask any perspective lover, how is it that you want to feel? How is it that you want to feel in this sexual interaction? Yeah. It’s so good. It’s so, so good. And those two questions for me have been really gentle and really unlocking ways to talk more about desires and sexuality, because it can be scary.
It can feel really vulnerable. And when you almost have these like little nuggets of questions, I find that questions can be so supportive to create almost that container of safety for the self okay. I know I’ve got two questions that I can ask that will at least help get the conversation moving or flowing and help open my partner up and my other kind of tip that’s just come to me on that is, is.
I don’t know necessarily what it is you desire or your partner doesn’t know necessarily what they might be into is yeah. Coming with some suggestions coming weighed like a different, like list I know on your website, which is actually one of the ways that
[00:51:05] Chief: I don’t, it just reminded me.
Yeah. That was, I realized that because you’d link to me and I saw it. I’m a proper Gaetz. I saw it in my analytics data that I was having people from your side. I was like, Ooh, who’s linked to this and that. And that’s how I found out. Yeah. You’d link to the sex menu.
[00:51:19] Rosa: Yeah. So good. And I think having something like a sex menu and exploring, well, actually, okay.
If I might not know him, particularly as we were talking about earlier and with people in that almost early stages of the desire journey, so to speak where, like I have no idea what it is. I even desire is getting curious about. Which things maybe on a sex menu spark that desire within you.
And sometimes what I’ve found is if you’re struggling to be like, oh, I really don’t know is maybe there’s some work to connect to the body. And my invitation here is to like really breathe. Maybe do some breath work, maybe say, even in meditation, focus on the breath for a few minutes and then have a look at these different things on this list or this menu.
I like, just notice maybe paying specific attention to what your genitals are saying, to wake up. Yeah. Yeah. And if we’re more connected to these parts of the body, like I always say for me, my Pacino’s, she knows if I want something or not. And that changes from person to person. So like I might have set in boundaries and desires with one romantic partner or sexual partner, and that might completely change with another.
And for anyone listening, that is okay, you are allowed to have different desires, different boundaries with different people at different moments as well at different moments. Hell. Yeah. And I think that is one of the things in my own sexual liberation journey, that learning where my boundaries are and not knowing, not having to know exactly where my limits are, but knowing that I can listen to my body and my body will tell me when I want something sexually.
And when I don’t and that I’ve now built that empowerment with myself to speak up and I will even stop people sometimes halfway through a scene or through having sex and being like, Ooh, actually something’s not feeling very good in my body. Can we pause and breathe together? And I would love it if you could just hold me from.
And gently like caress my skin. So I can just come back into my body and notice as someone who’s experienced sexual trauma I can dissociate, I can leave my buddy. I can have a freeze response. And so communicating this with my partners and also knowing what I need in those moments and being able to ask for them is one of the most liberating things that I’ve ever found with within my own kind of sexual journey and also, uh, with embracing and accepting my desires and knowing where my boundaries and desires are in the moment.
And yeah, it feels so good when you can say an authentic yes. And a really empowered yes. And a really empowered. No. And you only get to these really empowered nos. Yes. There’s sorry. If you have, if you know where you’re empowered knows are as well. Definitely. Yeah.
[00:54:13] Moineau: That’s sorry. Yeah. That’s this whole conversation is really.
It’s hitting the core stuff, I think it’s really important that like what you were saying about the asking, what does that mean to you? And and the projection that we put onto people and onto ourselves as well, and it’s good to have a, is it’s good to reconnect with the body and breathe.
I think maybe you should add that to your sex money page to take some breaths first before you do it. Cause it’s, it is important to reconnect with the body and also to make that connection with your part, with any partner that you’re playing with. And let them know that, yeah, if there are moments.
That you need to pause and reconnect that’s a good thing. That’s a healthy thing. And that’s something that should be, yeah, you
[00:55:08] Chief: can pause. It can take breaks. It’s not like it’s nice to be like porn, right. One, should we be serious all
[00:55:13] Moineau: the time? Either? It’s a playful, it’s a joyful thing.
You don’t like sex should be
[00:55:18] Chief: joyful. Yeah. Whatever that means to you. I, so I liked it. There’s two questions I like to ask, which are and I want to know what you feel about this. So I asked what’s sometimes, because this is quite difficult question to ask. Cause it can make you feel quite insecure.
You say what’s the best sex you’ve ever had and then follow it up with, well, what made it good? Because they know when to say, oh, it was when I was with this guy and it was on the beach and then you’re like, what made it good? And they’re like, Ooh. Cause it was really romantic. So it’s kind of the same as what you were saying earlier, you’re getting to the core and then you’re like, right.
Okay. And my next scene, I’m going to replicate some of those elements to make the experience, not replicate the activities, but replicate the feelings that they had in that time. And then the other one is what uh, what’s what are your top fantasies or what’s your top fantasy that you haven’t done?
And I’ll use the word fantasy because it then means, yeah, it’s okay. If it’s a bit too. Yeah, because you’re not saying you’re not necessarily, let’s saying let’s do it. You’re just saying, and again, you can’t just come out with these questions on a first date that I’m talking about this when you’re in that safe space, I don’t know.
It just helps you if I’m quite nosy. So I quite liked it. I like, cause I like to know that so that I can incorporate it into my next play session with, because that’s
[00:56:36] Moineau: showing that you are being mindful of your partner and you’re wanting it’s that it’s not just about you, you’re you are holding that space for them so that they can derive pleasure to make it a mutual, uh, uh,
[00:56:50] Chief: yeah. And again, I think that’s where a lot of Dom’s go wrong. And my style of dominance it’s really. It’s giving my startup dollars is very giving. I like to think so. It’s about finding out what makes the other person tick and then helping them help give that to them. Whereas again, when you first say you’re into dominance, people are like, oh, so you’re, is it all the pleasures about you and not about the other person?
It’s couldn’t be further from the truth for me, for my style anyway. Yeah. Yeah. It’s totally the opposite. Really.
[00:57:19] Rosa: Yeah. Yeah. That goes back to exactly that well, what does that mean to you? Because we do, we have these misconceptions. We have these projections that we see maybe from the way that the media has portrayed different dynamics, different sexual acts or activities.
And I really love those questions that you ask. Like maybe on the fire I quit. I would be, I would love to be asked that on a first date personally, but then, uh, that’s
favorite thing. If someone asks me what my fantasies are, I’m like, oh my gosh, they’re really interested. They literally and that really ties in as well. And I feel on that, I. And that, like that way, you said what’s the best part about that? That really, for me, links into that, well, how did you feel in that sexual experience?
And they’re like, oh, I felt so loved. I felt so cherished. I felt so desired. I felt so naughty, I felt so degraded. And then you do you really get into, well, what is it about those sexual experiences? That, and that’s what I encourage everyone to do. If you are listening and you want to explore what your core desired feelings are, what it is that like really makes you tick.
I always said. I always invite, I love to give my clients homework and like worksheets and different like general prompts and questions. And particularly when we’re exploring core desired feelings is I’ll always invite them to examine like the porn that they watch, that the erotica that they read, the fantasies that they have, that hottest sexual memories and almost.
Spend time going through each of those and just noticing, well, when you watch this porn, like how does it make you feel? What are the feelings that come up for you when you’re reading this erotica? What is it a bit in the erotica? How does that feel? And in these memories and you become your own like pleasure reset it.
And you get to dig, dive deep into what it is that really brings you pleasure. And you can gain clues from all of these different spaces then to the acts and activities that will most help you get these desired feelings. And I always find for me, that’s where I love to start is like, how do you want to feel?
And then what is it that makes you that helps you feel that way? And that is going to be so subjective to everyone as well
[00:59:35] Moineau: of how this entire conversation has been focused about, sex and pleasure and desire. But as we said, at the very beginning, like this is. About liberation. I’m like, I can definitely see how this, yeah.
Spending a little bit of time focusing on your own desires. Definitely is not contained to two sex. This has such a big impact on your life and your interactions with others. Like this exploration into the self and like holding space for yourself and for your partners. It’s just, it’s. A big benefit in so many factors with life outside of sex.
So yeah, definitely like it’s all about liberation,
[01:00:17] Rosa: sex liberation.
[01:00:23] Chief: So, I mean, on that note, if people have resonated with what you’ve been saying, where can they find out more about you and what you offer?
[01:00:33] Rosa: No. Uh, well, I would love if this is resonating with anyone, please do come find me, send me a DM. Like I always love when people sign into my DMS on Instagram.
So that’s one of the best places to find me is. Yeah, that is the one
[01:00:50] Chief: w E.
[01:00:51] Rosa: Correct. Correct. Or you can find me at my website, which is very similar. It’s www.rosamaxwell.co.uk. And you can find out more about my own personal journey, what it is. I do the coaching work that I do. And I also have my, my, my own podcast.
It’s been put on hold for, uh, a little while as I’ve been so busy with some amazing clients and all of that journies, but I’m excited to pick it back up in the new year and that’s called unlocked and unrestricted. And you can find that thank you on Spotify. And it was really, it’s really born out of all of us emerging from this pandemic that we are still finding ourselves in, but how can we reconnect to sexuality and begin to explore these spaces that.
That we’re really interested in. And some that feel quite taboo, whether it’s sex parties, whether it’s BDSM, whether it’s even like tantra or central massage and like pussy massage and penis massage and things like that. So we kind of go into all of these different spaces that are really there for helping people on their sexual liberation journey.
So yeah come on over, come
[01:02:02] Chief: say hi. And they’re based in London as well, right? For people who might be interested in becoming, although I guess now you, you do your sessions over, over zoom or similar. Yeah.
[01:02:14] Rosa: Yeah. I’m 50 50 at the moment I am worldwide. I am seeing people across the pond as well.
But yeah, I also have a private office in east London. And so I see about 50% of my clients and in person, and I love that too. So yeah. Color is say hi, I’d love to
[01:02:32] Chief: see amazing. Well, it’s been a pleasure having you on thank you so much. Very interesting conversation. As I knew it would be clearly, a lot about this area.
So if anyone does resonate do go and check out Rosa’s site because I’ve seen you do a lot of great content as well on Instagram videos and stuff. So yeah. Thank you for chatting with us and it’s been a pleasure having you here.
[01:02:57] Rosa: Thank you for having me such a good combo.
[01:03:01] Chief: So, on that note, We will end the podcast here.
Thank you very much. If you want any more information, of course, go ahead and check out Rose’s site and you can find me and Moineau at kinkyevents.co.uk until next time, lots of love and spanks.
Loved this. 👏🏻
This episode was mind blowing. Gave me a lot to think about