Chief discusses the trials and tribulations of dating when both kinky and non-monogamous. He discusses the best places to meet other people into Dom/sub dynamics, non-monogamy, and kink, and also at what point you should disclose this bombshell to potential partners.
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Audio transcript
[00:00:19] Hello, and welcome to another episode of conversations with a Dom with me chief. Now, today, we’re going to be talking about dating and kink and how do the two go together? This is probably one of the areas that I have struggled with the most because kink and being into BDSM is potentially going to scare off potential partners.
[00:00:43] So how do you bring it up to them? Where can you even go to find people who are into kink. I’m going to tell you a little bit about my experiences, what I’ve experienced in the past and so on. So I’ll begin by saying. It was actually people that I started dating, who brought out the Dom side of me.
[00:01:02] With my first partner I didn’t really put a label on the fact that I was kinky or that I was into D/s. We just had fairly kinky sex. Not extreme by any means. Certainly on the kinkier side or maybe on the slightly rougher side but again, I didn’t label it as such. And when I broke up with that person I just naturally seem to attract more submissive people.
[00:01:28] And I don’t know whether it’s because of that stage. I just wanted the casual sex and something about my personality and the way I was chatting online, just naturally filtered out people who are submissive, but I ended up going on a lot of dates and these women had more experience than me.
[00:01:43] They knew about the term Dom and sub, which I hadn’t really come across. And I wasn’t really that familiar with. And they identified as submissives and they were wanting a more dominant partner, certainly in the bedroom, not necessarily outside the bedroom. From there.
[00:02:01] I think that’s when my interest in this area grew and I put a label on it and saying, I’m a Dom and I like to go out with subs. And from that point on, it made it almost a bit trickier to date because now not only was I looking for all the characteristics that I wanted in a partner in the vanilla sense, but I also had to find someone who was also into all of this other kinky stuff.
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[00:02:24] Modern dating is hard enough as it is, but you add on this extra layer, it adds further complications.
[00:02:31] So nowadays I also have the fact that I am, non-monogamous thrown in there. This, again, wasn’t really something. I knew much about, but I began to get this feeling that potentially one person wasn’t going to satisfy everything I needed and was that even fair and that I wanted to go to sex parties and I wanted to explore maybe even going on dates with other people.
[00:02:58] And so I wanted someone wanted to date someone who was open to that as well. Now non-monogamy and kink don’t necessarily aren’t necessarily the same thing. You don’t have to be in a Dom sub relationship that does not automatically mean you are non-monogamous. And likewise, if you’re into non-monogamy, that doesn’t necessarily mean you are into BDSM or kink or D/s.
[00:03:21] There is quite a big overlap. I tend to find that people who are into BDSM and kink tend to be more open to non-monogamy as a general rule, because they are Yeah, not always, but it tends to be the case, but still it makes it, it makes the pots of people that you are going after when you were dating a little bit smaller and a little more, more difficult to find someone who has everything you want in a regular partner, but also has this kinky side to them and potentially into non-monogamy.
[00:03:49] This brings me to the first situation, which is at what point do you bring up the fact that you are into this stuff? How do you tell a partner that you’re into this? Because I’ve had situations where I’ve been very upfront and I put it in my profile and that has drastically cut down the number of responses.
[00:04:10] I think as a guy, anyway, it’s very difficult to do online dating the odds are a little bit stacked against us. So when you add in the fact you’re very blatant in your profile that you’re wanting a D/s relationship and potentially a non-monogamous one. Again your prospects are very much dwindle, so I no longer do that approach.
[00:04:28] The next kind of strategy is you don’t, if you’re doing online dating, you don’t mention it at all. You don’t put any hint of kink or non-monogamy into your profile, but then you have the problem of, by the time you get onto a date and you start going on dates and it’s still, you don’t mention it at some point, you’re going to have to bring it up. And in my mind, this is this poses, a little bit of an ethical dilemma. Is it acceptable to go on dates and to sleep with someone? And then at the last moment or not the last moment, maybe on date five, bring up the fact that you’re into this other stuff.
[00:05:02] I think kink and D/s potentially. um, The bit about monogamy non-monogamy is probably more, almost in a way more extreme, I think less people potentially into non-monogamy than they would be open to Dom sub because Dom sub I think a lot of people have fantasized about that, but I think less people fantasize about non-monogamy.
[00:05:23] So the problem with waiting that long is that you can potentially get accused of leading someone on and not being open. And I have mixed feelings about this, if I’m honest, because on the one hand, why should you have to bring it up? It’s the other person who has made the assumption that you are monogamous and they’re probably dating other people for the moment anyway, even if they’re ultimately looking for something monogamous.
[00:05:47] So why should you have to disclose absolutely everything about yourself potentially? Cause it’s not going to go anywhere anyway. On the other hand, most people are monogamous and therefore you potentially should be bringing it up.
[00:06:00] I guess it would be like disclosing the fact that you have children. When you go on dates, especially if you’re under 30, you would expect the other person not to have children. And if they do that might be something that you want to put on a profile or disclose up front, but you don’t have to. There’s no legal obligation to do that.
[00:06:17] It’s a moral choice. And so I don’t know what the answer is. There is no definitive answer as to when you should bring up the kink or D/s. What I do currently now is that I get a read of the other person based on how much yeah. How I’m chatting with them over text and I will try and throw in some hints that I am into kink.
[00:06:37] I put a non vanilla I put the fact that I want a non vanilla partner. I put that into my online profile. I’m assuming people have read that. And that is a disclaimer, so that when I do go on a date, maybe after two or three dates, I will then explain exactly.
[00:06:53] I will ask them, did you see the non vanilla or my profile? What did you think? That’s probably the latest I would do it. Ideally they would bring it up in our chats or I would hint at it in our texts before we even have a first date. And I would just check that they are somewhat into that thing.
[00:07:08] If you are very blatant up front, right at the beginning, I think it can have the effect that. They don’t know exactly what being a Dom means. And they, again, I’ve said this before, whenever I tell someone I’m a Dom, they have this stereotypical image of I’m going to basically you boss them around.
[00:07:25] They’re not going to have their own free will. And I’m going to inflict lots of pain on them, which couldn’t be further from my version of being a Dom. So that is why I don’t say it very blatantly up front. I need to first understand how much they understand about this. What do they know about being in a D/s relationship looks like, are they at all interested in it? Have they had any experience with it? So I gently want to tease that information out of them before I potentially tell them what I am into. But again, these are not hard and fast rules. These are just some things that I have found have worked for me in the past.
[00:07:56] Non-monogamy as I’ve said, is the trickier one. I have not figured out the best time to bring up the fact that I’m, non-monogamous particularly on a standard dating app. So we’ll maybe circle back to this one, but it’s one of the reasons why I do as well as being on standard dating online dating apps, also using some of the kinky versions.
Places to meet kinky folk
[00:08:18] So let’s go back to places you can meet potential partners who might be into D/s. So number one, as I’ve said, I’m on the regular dating apps. These people tend not to be kinky, tend not to be non-monogamous. Or certainly if they are, they don’t say it and you have to figure out and get a feel for when the other person whether the other person is into it and you have to make a judgment call and based on your morals, at what point you bring up.
[00:08:45] There are also kink apps. These apps are things like Feeld F. E. E. L. D., which originally was an app for people to get couples, to find a third for threesomes, but it’s evolved into a dating app for singles and couples. And the people on there are very much more open and explicit about what they’re looking for.
[00:09:08] And therefore the fact that you are non-monogamous is not an issue with the fact you’re into D/s is not an issue. You can be very open about it. However, like a lot of these apps they are quite male heavy, and therefore, if you are a single male, trying to find a kinky partner, it can be can be a struggle.
[00:09:26] But just know that you don’t have to be as hidden about your preferences as you wish.
[00:09:31] Now, I wish we lived in a world where you could be totally honest about wanting to be non-monogamous and into D/s. I wish I could put that on every single profile, but some of the comments I get when I do that is, people are just not accepting of this lifestyle yet.
[00:09:46] I hope to change that. That’s exactly why I have my site and why I do these kinds of podcasts, because I want it to become more mainstream. I want it to become a more acceptable to talk about this stuff. It’s not like we’re hurting anyone. Without their consent. Anyway, so this is the reason I want people to be able to discuss this more.
[00:10:03] I want it to become more acceptable. I think non-monogamy has become more mainstream. Anyway, in the past five years, there’s been a lot more chat about it. I think people are starting to open up to the idea. But we’ll have to see, I’m very curious as to see how dating evolves in the next five to 10 years.
[00:10:18] So there are other kink apps as well. OkCupid used to be really good. It used to have a very good app. It was very progressive. You could put a lot of information about your sexuality. There was a lot of kinky people on there. It’s in fact, where I met Moineau who does some of the podcasts with me.
[00:10:36] But ever since it got bought by Match, unfortunately they have destroyed that kind of culture. And it was very much turned into a non-progressive just standard swipey-app. And you can’t search for people anymore. It’s just gone the way of Tinder. So I am on it occasionally, but I would no longer recommend it as a good one, but Feeld yes.
[00:10:57] Feeld, I would still recommend. And the people who run Feeld also do certainly used to do some good monthly events in London. And they’re very progressive. They’re very good. They’re very open and seem to like to educate people about this area as well. So I’m all for that. Now there are a few other apps as well, maybe worth, mention killing kittens.
[00:11:15] If you’ve been in this community for awhile, you’ve obviously heard of killing kittens who are probably the biggest brand of adult parties aimed at PR aimed at sort of women’s pleasure and empowerment, but they have launched a dating site of sorts. So again, you know that everyone on there is probably going to be into kink in some way, or at least open to going to parties.
[00:11:34] And generally, if you’re open to going to parties, you are somewhat open to the idea of playing with others. And therefore I would say non-monogamous in a way, so check that out again. I’m not necessarily saying use KK. I’ve not used it myself, but I’m aware of it. It may or may not work for you.
[00:11:53] There’s also a site called FetLife.
[00:11:56] So fetlife.com is think of it as the Facebook for kinksters. It’s not a dating app. However, I made this mistake when I first joined it, I thought, oh great. There’s a, there’s an app a website where all these kinky people are, and I can just get one, create a profile and, start messaging people. But it’s absolutely not that think of it.
[00:12:14] Like you wouldn’t go onto Facebook and just add a random person that you don’t know and start messaging them. That would be a bad strategy. Fetlife is exactly the same, just because they are putting pictures of themselves up there and they put all this kinky stuff in their description, do not start messaging them. FetLife the way to use it is you go to real world events, you meet people, and then you ask for their FetLife and you are.
[00:12:38] When you build up your social circle that way do not start messaging around to be blunt FetLife. I’m asking them for dates. Now you can, I would advise against it is generally see, is generally frowned upon to do that. So don’t think of it as a dating app. Think of it as a Facebook, social networking.
[00:12:54] The next way to meet people that I found is at kinky parties. So you go to kinky parties, these can range in everything from swingers clubs to just social events for kinky people. Let’s put munches in as well. So munches are social meetings for kinksters, but held in vanilla setting. So no sex just chatting and meeting people. FetLife has a great event section and it lists out all the events that are happening in your area, parties, munches, and so on. So if you are looking for someone as well as using the dating apps, do go meet people over.
[00:13:27] You might get invited to some party, some events and meet someone that way as everything, it’s just like regular dating. The more people you can meet, the higher, the chances are that you will meet someone that you like. So get on there, find some real world events to go to and go at all. I would say though, generally at say at parties where sex happens people typically are not looking for partners.
[00:13:51] They generally go with a partner it’s not exclusively true, but a lot of the, say the swingers clubs, people are going with partners and therefore they just want to a night of fun rather than meeting someone. And again, that’s a bit of a generalization, but it can happen. So you’re probably better off going to the social events and the munches.
[00:14:08] Another great way to meet people I’ve found is going to regular events, but regular events that are talking about sex or talking about polyamory. Because generally again, if people are going into those kinds of talks, they’ve got an interest in them and they’re probably somewhat. Open to that idea. So you can find those kind of regular events I use.
[00:14:29] Eventbrite’s I go on there maybe, or certainly I did when there was a lot more events going on. I’d go in there and I’d search for sex, I’d search for dating. And I’d see what came up in that looked slightly kinky or like it would attract the kind of people that I want to attract and I’d go along and I’ve had a few dates off those not that it’s gone anywhere, but it is possible to make friends and go to those kinds of events and meet people.
[00:14:52] So those were some tips for actually meeting people, as I’ve said, have split it into two. One is the regular apps where no one really knows that you’re kinky until you reveal it in some method, which is up to you, but if you’re going to these other events, then chances are people already know you’re kinky.
[00:15:10] So it can make that beginning process of dating that much easier. I just love it when you can be totally open and honest with someone, and you can reveal all the things about you which make you, who you are. I like that. I don’t like having to hide the fact that I am into this stuff. Like you have to do when you go on regular dates and maybe you don’t have to, but in my experience unless someone gets to know you and trust you, if you are a complete stranger as a, certainly as a guy and you say, oh, into all this stuff, that can act as a red flag to some people.
[00:15:42] And put them off you and they don’t want to see you again, even though if they had got to know you for a couple more dates and then use really explained to them what it means to you and why you were into it, they would probably be accepting, or at least like it. The other thing to know is that you are going to have situations and I’ve had this plenty of times where you really get on with someone, the dates are going really well.
[00:16:06] And then you reveal that you are into this stuff. More so as I’ve said, if you are into non-monogamy. And for some people, it’s just so outside their traditional view of how relationships and the world should work, that they can’t get their heads around it. And that it’s just not for them, which again is totally acceptable.
[00:16:25] It’s a massive pain for me. And it feels really bad when you really like someone, you get to know , they really like you too, and you’re sitting there and you’re nervous cause you’ve got to bring up this fact that you’re non-monogamous and you do it. And it just, it kills the vibe.
[00:16:40] They’re not into it. And you agreed that you want different things and so you never see them again, or you never go on a date. It’s pretty devastating is just one of the things that you have to deal with with being kinky, I’m afraid it will happen to you, but please don’t get angry with them.
[00:16:55] It’s their choice. Just like it is your choice to want to be kinky or want to be non-monogamous.
[00:17:00] In some situations you will have to figure out how important it is to you. I’ve had to do this recently. I’ve had to really sit down and think is being non-monogamous really key. Could I go back to a relationship where I wasn’t non-monogamous and I think for me, I’ve come to the conclusion.
[00:17:18] No I don’t think I want to be, I think I could not be fully polyamorous and I think I could not go on, want to go on dates with other people if I found the right person, but I think I’d always want to go to parties with my partner and I’d always want to potentially play with other people with my partner. So non-monogamy is such a wide area it’s worth sitting down and thinking about.
[00:17:42] Being able to articulate to a partner, exactly what you want about non-monogamy. Where do you fall? Are you fully monogamous? And you’re okay with that person and never flirting with anyone else ever in your life. And that’s what monogamy means to you, or are you maybe non-monogamish where you don’t play with anyone and you don’t go on any other dates, but you are okay with flirting with other people.
[00:18:05] All the way through to where you’re fully polyamorous, you have multiple partners and you’re in love with all of them. Okay. So really sit down, have a think about all of those different options and everything in between, on the spectrum. And just know what it is that you want, because otherwise you’ll go into relationships.
[00:18:22] You’ll go into dates, you’ll meet someone amazing. And you need to know, is this like a core need inside you? Is this something that you really have to have? Because otherwise you’ll get into relationship and then a year down the line that we would be something in the back of your head, that’s saying, Hey, this isn’t right.
[00:18:39] This isn’t really what I want. And you have to go through a break-up. So it’s really important that, or at least know as best as you can right now, what you want. And then stick to that. If someone amazing comes along, that doesn’t fit that criteria, you can reassess your criteria. You can think about is there anywhere where I can compromise, but being able to articulate to your partner, at least at first, what you want is super important and it’ll help you with your dating discussions.
[00:19:08] So that’s it. I would summarize by saying it certainly adds a layer of complexity. You’ve got to be careful about opening up to people. Don’t open up too soon because they may use that information against you.
[00:19:20] Sadly, it does happen. At the same time. Don’t not reveal it to them because otherwise you don’t want to be in a relationship with someone and then you suddenly find out or you reveal that you’re super kinky and you’re not getting your needs met and then have to break up with them. Do think about where on the non-monogamy scale you are, do have a think about what aspects of kink you enjoy so that you can articulate these to your partner before you start getting too serious perhaps, and make sure you just are sexually and a relationship-aly, if that’s even a word, which it isn’t, but you understand what I mean, make sure that your relationship styles are compatible.
[00:19:57] If you are listening to this and you’re potentially are vanilla yourself.
[00:20:01] Yeah. That’s absolutely fine. Just a bit, but also be open to the fact that the other person you may be going on dates with may not want what you want and that’s okay. Try and stay away from judging them too much. Really try to understand what it is that they like and dislike.
[00:20:14] And you can maybe find a compromise if you really like the person that might be a middle ground, where you can both have an amazing sex, you can both have an amazing relationship dynamic, which isn’t exactly a hundred percent perfect. But then again, what relationship is.
[00:20:29] So that’s it. I hope you found those tips useful. Go out there, go meet some people. And I hope you find the amazing D/s dynamic that you are after.
